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BCM, PIM, ECU Linking Problems

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Postby IL1CIT » Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:43 pm

Hi guys,

So a good friend of mine has finished doing a engine conversion on his 2005 VZ Calais but has been unable to start it due to not having modules linked :( now you would think problem solved as I have a tech 2 Clone that i have "patched" to allow TIS access, But no not the case!

Here is what he has:
VZ Calais 2005 Auto 3.8L >>> VZ Gen IV (LS2) Auto (Manual loom)

Turns out he didn't have the BCM code and couldn't retrieve it as the seller has since changed phone numbers or isn't answering his calls for some reason.

So, He has since purchased all the following NEW: BCM (Lux with bcm code), PIM, Key Head

So i went out there again today to finally get this sorted for him, BUT to link modules i am required to disable the theft deterrent system... Go into program the remote to fix the issue... punch in code... Wrong BCM Code! Hrmmmm

I may also add that to get to here the key has to be ON to read the data, But then the scan tool asks to turn the ignition ON (before i punch in the BCM code) THE KEY IS ALREADY ON... so i cycle the keys off-on and it recognizes the key on but only for a few seconds it seems but it does get me to the BCM code screen. Any ideas why it is doing this i have never had this problem before :S

Any help would be amazing,
Thanks guys
BTW hope this doesn't need to be in Invite only section
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Postby LangasLS » Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:51 pm

Dare I say it, I'd be contacting Holden with the serial no. of the 'new' BCM. They can fill out a form and fax it to 'Holden Security' who will advise them of the Security No. for that BCM.

On a VZ there are two security numbers - a 4 digit PCM/PIM Security No and a 6 digit BCM Number. If you can obtain the 4 digit PCM/PIM Security number you should be able to link a new PCM to the existing PIM/BCM. On the tech 2 you should be able to see the VIN number of PCM you've installed - use this to get the security code for it.

This link should give you some more info on it..
http://www.snapontools.com.au/__data/as ... ctions.pdf
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Postby IL1CIT » Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:51 pm

Also note that in module presence check PIM and Instrument is not available but can be accessed and modified etc
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Postby IL1CIT » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:40 pm

Will give Holden a call tommorrow and see if its possible to get the new BCM code and the PIM security numbers clarified and also get codes for his old gear if i can too,

He has a used ECU & EMC but BCM, PIM and key are new

Wonder if anyone knows about the ignition status situation or the module presence check failure??
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Postby TazzI » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:30 pm

IL1CIT wrote:Will give Holden a call tommorrow and see if its possible to get the new BCM code and the PIM security numbers clarified and also get codes for his old gear if i can too,

He has a used ECU & EMC but BCM, PIM and key are new

Wonder if anyone knows about the ignition status situation or the module presence check failure??

Yeah there's a lot of mystery with relink all the modules. A lot of people that can do it don't share their experiences as they do it for a day job relinking vz ecu's since they seem to die all the time.

All the security code stuff can be extracted using the right knowledge, unlocking algorithms ect. But not something that goes into a forum!
Best bet is to contact Holden with the vin.

As for the key issue, doesn't sound like the bcm is detecting the keys code on the ignition ring? Or it is invalid?
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Postby IL1CIT » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:17 pm

Yes there is alot of mystery unfortunately :(

I worked as an auto electrician for a year or so so also have access to a different scan tool so hoping to try to get some luck with that just don't want to drive out to this guy again

The key isnt programmed it is blank, I believe the procedure goes as follows with a new BCM, new key, New Pim

Link Key to BCM with BCM code
Link BCM to Pim (with bcm code + theft deterrent system disabled (programmed key in Ign))
Link BCM/PIM to ECM

Cant figure out why ignition status keeps dropping voltage and thinking its off until i turn on off again

Spoke to a mate that is in Holden spare parts and he said he cannot get BCM code confirmed without vin :S

Thanks guys
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Postby TazzI » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:46 am

IL1CIT wrote:Yes there is alot of mystery unfortunately :(

I worked as an auto electrician for a year or so so also have access to a different scan tool so hoping to try to get some luck with that just don't want to drive out to this guy again

The key isnt programmed it is blank, I believe the procedure goes as follows with a new BCM, new key, New Pim

Link Key to BCM with BCM code
Link BCM to Pim (with bcm code + theft deterrent system disabled (programmed key in Ign))
Link BCM/PIM to ECM

Cant figure out why ignition status keeps dropping voltage and thinking its off until i turn on off again

Spoke to a mate that is in Holden spare parts and he said he cannot get BCM code confirmed without vin :S

Thanks guys

Yeah, I know of one that does it as almost a full time job. Definitely why its been kept a mystery due to the profit.

Other scantools are probably not going to help you here. They all have access to the same documentations when programming the devices in the first place.

Sounds like a wiring issue maybe, make sure the little knob on the key is definitely touching the key ring. But it could be because nothing is security linked, not even the key is registered so the whole car is having a little hissy. Generally when programming a key, the car is "unlocked" using a good key to even get into a car so that generally disables any security or issues there.

Both BCM key and PIM key (4 digit security key) can be obtained using custom software and diagnostics. Not something available to the public though, also need to have reversed engineered algos and other bits and pieces.

If the BCM,PIM and ECU are from different vehicles, your kinda stuck since the BCM will have a different security key to the VIN you can pull from the ECU since they are from different cars. And the PIM will also need to be reset which will require its PIM code.. which also requires is VIN.
Cant imagine Holden is going to give out security info on 2 different VIN's. :?

On tech2, you can select that all 3 devices have been "changed" and it begins the process from there. Although still need the keys to be entered.

The bloke that does it for a full time thing, uses custom hardware and software to obtain the security details. He said the PIM can have its key pulled using a bruteforce application.. although fro my readings this doesnt seem possible since after 3incorrect tries the PIM locks out for ~30min, then 2 hours, 6, and 24 hours or something along those lines.
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Postby TazzI » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:45 pm

Ended up having some luck with the whole bcm,PIM,ecu linking for vz v6.

Seems that a key must be coded to the bcm before anything can be done. Then both PIM and ecu need to be reset using the security key coded to each. Then finally it is just a matter of enter the bcm key and entering a new custom security key for all three modules to be linked to.

PIM key is impossible to retrieve over comms. But both ecu and bcm are possible to get security info
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Postby IL1CIT » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:07 am

Good news (y)

I'll write up an update tonight but have since found that he needs a different slip ring as his fitted his car with hsv modules something related to iss security so I think that may be the cause of the ignition status an auto electricians went out yesterday with a different scan tool that doesn't usually need bcm codes etc but for this one he does

But good news is he was able to program the key without bcm code, so now to go back out and we if I can link the bcm with my scan tool once he sorts out this other slip ring issue

His new Pim didn't come with a code so unsure how I'm going to go finding it :S
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Postby TazzI » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:19 pm

I'm still sussing out an "over the comms" solution for PIM and ecu.

I can grab the code if you fire the PIM my way.
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